Wednesday, March 9, 2011

THE CATCHER IN THE RYE: Holden's Examples of Phonies

Throughout the novel, Holden Caulfield calls many people “phonies”. To help us analyze Holden’s position, post a blog response focusing on a specific character: identify and explain 1 specific example showing what this character does or says that makes him / her phony in Holden’s eyes. Finally, agree or disagree with Holden’s analysis, giving 2 specific reasons for your response. Feel free to respond to your peers’ comments, but, to be credited, you must add new information. SOME possible characters to explore include are D.B., Lillian Simmons, Maurice, Horwitz, Jane’s father, Horwitz, Stradlater, girls in the Lavender Room, Ernie, and Sally Hayes. (Due by 10:00 p.m. 03.09.11. Full credit possibility: 10 pts.)

19 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Holden classifies the girls in the Lavender room as “phonies”. The three girls are very ignorant and morons in Holden’s eyes. He tries to hold conversations with them, but they can’t. The whole time they are in the Lavender room the girls are looking around to find movie stars. When Holden says he sees a movie star they actually believed him. I agree with Holden as classifying the girls as “phonies”. The girls almost seem not real because they cannot have a serious conversation with Holden. When Holden was dancing with the blonde girl he kept trying to have conversation with her but all she would say is what or what did you say, since she was too busy looking around for movie stars. This all occus in chapter 10 mostly on pages 72-76.

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  3. Lillian Simmons is the most obvious phonie to me. The only reason that Lillian said hi Holden was to find out how his brother was doing. It seemed to me that when Lillian found out that Holden’s brother was in Hollywood it was like she was even more interested with Holden only to find out more about i=his brother. Which is phonie because; she had no interest in Holden at all she just wanted to talk about Holden’s brother hoping that Holden would tell his brother about their encounter. She made it even more obvious at the end of the conversation that she was using Holden to get to his brother by telling Holden to tell his brother that she hates him. Out of all the phonies in the book so far Lillian made hers the most obvious, although she was not doing it intentionally, it was obvious. I agree with Holdens opinion on Lillian Simmons because from the beginning to the end of the short conversation she kept bringing up Holden’s brother, and she only invited Holden to her table to talk more about his brother when she found out about him being in Hollywood.

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  4. Lillian Simmons is a phony according to Holden. Holden’s brother, D.B, used to go around with Lillian for a while. “How marvelous to see you,” is what Lillian said to Holden when she saw him at Ernie’s. Holden says on page 86 that he thinks Lillian is strictly a phony. She introduced Holden to the Navy guy that was with her. Lillian asked Holden to join them, but Holden said he was leaving. In my opinion Lillian is a phony. When Holden was leaving, Lillian told Holden to tell his brother she hates him the next time he sees him. Before this Lillian was asking questions about D.B. It’s phony how she acted interested in what he was doing, but then said to tell him she hates him. I think Lillian just wants attention.

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  5. In Holden's eyes his brother D.B is a phony because he used to be a good writer but switched to playwright all for money. To a lot of people this wouldn’t matter but Holden views it as wrong. he even calls his own brother a prostitute because of this. I kind of have to agree with Holden here because to me money isn’t what is important. I believe that its about doing what you love with people you love that makes the job. I've seen relatives that have 'settled' and i hate seeing them not happy so this is where my opinion comes from.

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  6. He calls Ernie a phony because of the way he plays the piano. He doesn't think a talent like playing the piano should be showed off. Holden says that he doesn't just show off, but he really plays it up. He also comments on how Ernie acts humble, but Holden doubts that he really is. He doesn't believe that Ernie is humble because of how snobby he is. Ernie is only interested in talking with rich or famous people as Holden says. I think that from what Holden has said about Ernie he sounds like a phony. My idea of a phony is someone that acts in a way that they aren't really. When Holden says that Ernie acts humble, but he really isn't that pretty much seals the deal for me.
    *All the information I got for this blog is from page84

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  7. This ^ is Ali Rupe by the way my name is still the same from when I blogged in Biology

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  8. Holden calls the girls in the lavender room phony, because of the way the present themselves also by there additutes. I believe that holden shouldn't because he is setting standards high for them when him self ran off from boarding school after getting kicked out than, staying at a hotel, trying to drunkard get with older girls. I believe the girls have a right to not treat him very politely because of his appearance they know he is younger, also when he is dancing with blonde girl she doesn't hold a conversation or communicate well I believe that is fine because he put himself into the situation. I believe he shouldn't be calling people phonies. - Elle bennett

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  9. In Holdens eyes, Horwitz is a phony. Holden and Horwits start out their journey together in a large yellow cab. Holden strikes up a conversation with the poor cab driver, Horwitz, and asks him if he knows where the ducks go in the wintertime. On page, 82, Horwitz says, "how the hell should i know a stupid thing like that?". Horwitz then gets very "sore" about the whold duck situation, and tells Holden a big fat lie about how the fish get frozen in the pond. OBVIOUSLY, if you don't care about the ducks and where they go in the wintertime, you are the biggest phony EVER. Becuase Horwitz shows no care about the ducks, where the ducks go or even how the fish are able to surivve in the pond, Holden believes that he is a phony. I think Holden was right in saying that Horwitz was a phony, I dont think that Horwitz was a very nice person and I probably wouldn't like him either. Horwtiz was also very rude to Holden when he dropped him off at the Ernie's. I totally agree with Holden. If I asked someone a question and they responded like Horwitz did i would probably think almost the same things that Holden thought about him.

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  10. According to Holden, Horowitz is a phony. Horowitz is a cab driver that Holden talks to while in the cab. Holden wanted to know where the ducks would go in winter time. Horowitz, in my point of view, is very rude and impatient at first. He talks about the fish being frozen in the ice, but doesn’t say anything about the ducks. If Holden really wants to know about the ducks, he won’t care about the fish. Horowitz seems to me like a very misunderstanding phony!

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  11. Sarah McClay,

    Holden says that Maurice is a phony. He only directly says it once though. Maurice is the 'pimpy elevator guy' that sets Holden up with a prostitute. To begin with Maurice says 5 bucks for a throw and 15 till noon and Holden chose to do a throw. When the girl came to his room he was rill not in the mood to do it but he paid her $5. She starts to argue with him saying that he owes her $10 and he said it would be different it Maurice said $10 but he only said $5 for a throw. After she leaves she comes back a little bit with Maurice later after Holden gets undressed. They start to knock on the door and Maurice does all the talking. (pgs 101-103) When Holden asks what he wants Maurice says "Nothin' much, just five bucks." Holden explain that he already paid her $5 and Maurice says "It's ten bucks chief. I told ya that. Ten bucks for a throw, fifteen bucks till noon. I told ya that." Then Holden started to get real nervous. Maurice kept saying "Let's have it chief," Maurice that he was a moron for that. He acted like he owned the place, he sat down and loosened his collar and all, he was wearing an elevator operator's uniform. *Then Maurice unbuttoned his whole uniform coat. All he had on underneath was a PHONY shirt collar, but no shirt or anything he had a big fat hairy stomach. Maurice keeps saying No but they keep trying to chisel him. Sunny ends up getting his wallet and getting the $5. Even though she gets it Maurice still kept getting in his face. Holden tells him that he is a god damn dirty moron and Maurice acts like he didn't hear it by pulling on his own ear and asking him to repeat it and saying "What's that?" and "What am I?" Finally Holden says, "You're a dirty moron, you're a stupid chiseling moron, and in about two years you'll be one of those scraggy guys that come up to you on the street and ask for a dime for coffee. You'll have snot all over your dirty filthy overcoat, and you'll be-" That is when Maurice smacked Holden he didn't try to duck or anything but all he felt was a punch in his stomach. When Holden fell to the floor that is when Maurice and Sunny walked out.
    I think Maurice is a phony because he lies and forces Holden to pay five more dollars even though Maurice said to begin with that it was only $5 for a throw. I also think he is a phony because, agreeing with Holden, he is not wearing a shirt or anything, just has a phony collar. I agree with everything that Holden says about Maurice because he is a very sketchy guy I would be nervous too.

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  12. To Holden Maurice was a phony. Holden met Maurice in the elevator on his way up to his room. Maurice asks Holden if he is interested in having a good time and that is five bucks a throw and fifteen till noon, Holden says okay. When the prostitute goes to Holden's room they end up not even doing anything because he was too depressed. Holden just wanted to talk. After the prostitute leaves, she and Maurice come back later on wanting more money. What ends up happening is that old Maurice and the prostitute go in is room and act like it is their own place. Maurice still asking for the money sits down in a chair and starts to get undressed. Holden said that "All he had on underneath was a phony shirt collar, but no shirt or anything. So what Holden is saying is that Maurice is a phony because he seems like a jerk and all he really does is rip off people. Personally I think Maurice is just the elevator guy to con guys into a "good time" and take their money. I totally agree with Holden's judgment of Maurice being a phony because he definately is a big one.

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  13. Zach Harmon,

    The most obvious phony, in my opinion, would have to be Ernie. Ernie was the piano master from the club that Holden had visited. Holden is right in his judgement of Ernie being a phony. Two reasons why he is a phony would be that he would only ever talk to the 'big shots' who visited the bar. Another major reason that he is a phony, is that he uses a mirror on the top of his precious piano, but it doesn't focus on his hands like normal piano players, but instead, it focuses on his face and only his face. An extra reason would be that he uses improv. in all of his music. He never plays scripted traditional music. I'm enjoying this book a lot, and I hope everyone else is too.

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  14. I think that the biggest poney was Horwits. Horwits and holden met in the cab, that horwits drove. Holden was asking him where the ducks go in the winter, and Horwits said On page, 82 "how the hell should I know"? then he came up with a lie stating that the fish freeze in the water. If you are not well educated in what happens to fish and ducks in the winter, then you should not say that. I agree with holden, i that that horwits is a phony. He lies about simple things and that is why i think he is a phony.

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  15. Holden says that many people are phonies but one person that really stuck out to me was his brother, D.B. D.B. was a good writer, but he wasn't writing because he liked it. He was writing for money only. Holden called this prostitution and I agree because he wasn't using his writing abilities for the right reason. He was just selling himself out.

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  16. Lillian Simmons is a phony according to Holden. Holden’s brother, D.B, used to go around with Lillian for a while. “How marvelous to see you,” is what Lillian said to Holden when she saw him at Ernie’s. Holden says on page 86 that he thinks Lillian is strictly a phony. She introduced Holden to the Navy guy that was with her. Lillian asked Holden to join them, but Holden said he was leaving. In my opinion Lillian is a phony. When Holden was leaving, Lillian told Holden to tell his brother she hates him the next time he sees him. Before this Lillian was asking questions about D.B. It’s phony how she acted interested in what he was doing, but then said to tell him she hates him. I think Lillian just wants attention.
    im reposting this under my good account

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  17. That’s all he says through the book. He calls everybody phonies. Someone who he never called a phony was his brother D.B. Although he calls D.B. a prostitute for selling books, he never calls him a phony so he still has some respect for D.B.I think he is right when he calls D.B. a prostitute because he dosent put his heart into his books anymore.

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  18. In my opinion. Lillian Simmons is the biggest phony. You can tell throughout the book that she wants attention very much. She seems interested in what Holden does, but then she says she hates him. She seems like a two faced person and does not seem like a good friend to Holden. Holden thinks that a lot of people are phonys and he always has an opinion about everybody he meets. It seems like Lillian loves attention and does not want the best for Holden and his brother.

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  19. Everybody has already said a lot about people being phonies, the person I want to talk about is the George character, George is the character that Holden and Sally meet at the play, Holden refers to him as a phony and I agree with him 100%. He is exactly what Holden said, hes the type of phony that needs room when he talks. So when he answers to Sally he steps back, and steps on someones foot while doing it, best part is he didn't even apologize, making him and even bigger phony. And what makes him an even bigger phony is the way he talks, Holden says that he and Sally had about the phoniest conversation ever, they were naming places and then saying what people were at those places, and I agree with holden, if you stand there and talk like that all the time, then you have no life absolutely....

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